Pirate-4x4.Ru : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate-4x4.Ru : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > Brand Specific Tech > Jeep - Willys
Register Blogs FAQ Community Calendar Premium Memberships
Notices

Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-23-2014, 08:49 PM   #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Member # 343466
Location: WV
Posts: 707
Would you consider a TJ 2.4/2.5 a relevant swap for a Willy's?

I've never seen the TJ 4 cylinders mentioned as swap candidates. They're readily available and although underpowered for a TJ, it seems like a decent match on paper for one of the 40-50s models.

I'm finishing up a TJ frame swap/ rebuild currently, but I would love to do a Willy's build next. My uncle has a 53 cj3b just rotting away in a field that I could scavange for parts. The tub is very rough, and the tailgate isn't too great, but the hood, grill, and windshield all still look decent. It was running when parked, but I don't think I would be using any of the drivetrain anyway.

Last edited by wvjeepguy81; 08-23-2014 at 09:03 PM.
wvjeepguy81 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-23-2014, 09:28 PM   #2 (permalink)
Uncle Buck
 
danielbuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Member # 229476
Location: Gilroy CA
Posts: 3,797
personally, I wouldn't mess with any motor that needs a computer and all them wires. Better yet, any motor that needs spark plugs

The 4cyl TJ motor should be plenty of power for an old willys though. I know folks who wheel some pretty hardcore crawlers with TJ 4cyl motors. Gear it right, and it's just fine.
__________________
Redneck Driveway Fab
If it ain't a flat-fender, it ain't much.

Last edited by danielbuck; 08-23-2014 at 09:31 PM.
danielbuck is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Old 08-24-2014, 12:17 AM   #3 (permalink)
Rock God
 
EricsGreen98Tj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Member # 187456
Location: Elkins WV
Posts: 1,272
I have a Tj 2.5 and run 35" MTZ's. It is geared to 4.88. But my Tj will run 60mph anywhere in the mtns of Wv. In a Willys that weighs 1000lbs less it should be a great combo.
__________________
Quote:
Man, the expedition forum is
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
'r than gcc
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


If you fuckers actually took a second to read the words rather than knee jerk reacting to the pics, you might have a clue what his plan is.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
EricsGreen98Tj is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-24-2014, 10:21 AM   #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Member # 232466
Location: Ogden, Ut
Posts: 184
According to wikipedia:
Flat head: 60hp, 105ft-lbs
2.5l: 130hp, 150ft-lbs,
2.4l: 147hp/165lb-ft

So either of the newer 4-bangers put out a fair bit more power, and I would care to venture are lighter to boot. If you keep the rig light I dont think they are a bad choice, of course I may be a bit partial............


I am stuffing the whole 2.5l/ax-5/np-231 combo from a YJ into mine. Sure its no powerhouse but if you focus on keeping the build light and gear the axles low (they had 4.10's with stock tires) they get the job done.
__________________
Lead me to the crossroads, I can find my way home
Wjeeper is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-24-2014, 11:09 AM   #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
TimCubed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Member # 220897
Location: Pollock Pines ca.
Posts: 1,341
I have a friend that started the same project about 8/10 yrs. ago. looks to be about the same stage your in. A new kid and the project had to go to the back burner. He picked up the complete package for $600.00 all still assembled. Like you said and we talked about, in a light package it should be a good combo. Keep up on the build I'm interested to see how it comes out.
__________________
'44 GPW Stretched and Linked
'51 Willys bigger Stretch bigger Links
TimCubed is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-24-2014, 03:20 PM   #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Member # 343466
Location: WV
Posts: 707
Thanks for the replies. I'm still in the early stages of considering this. I'm wanting to take a summer welding/Fab course next year which will require me to quit my current job, so if I end up doing that I will be too short on cash. Otherwise, I think I can get quite a bit done on a $5000 budget or so, which is why I am looking at a cheaper alternative like the TJ 4 cylinders.
wvjeepguy81 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-24-2014, 09:16 PM   #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Member # 232466
Location: Ogden, Ut
Posts: 184
I think a donor vehicle would give you the biggest bang for the buck. With my build I have reused the engine/trans/tcase, front axle, steering gearbox, steering linkages, pedal assembly, brake booster wire harness etc etc. I probably only been able to sell the jeep for $800-1000 (ran great, looked bad) you can't buy all those parts separately for that price! An XJ would be a good donor too as they are mechanically the same and they are cheap and plentiful.
__________________
Lead me to the crossroads, I can find my way home
Wjeeper is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-24-2014, 10:43 PM   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Member # 343466
Location: WV
Posts: 707
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wjeeper View Post
I think a donor vehicle would give you the biggest bang for the buck. With my build I have reused the engine/trans/tcase, front axle, steering gearbox, steering linkages, pedal assembly, brake booster wire harness etc etc. I probably only been able to sell the jeep for $800-1000 (ran great, looked bad) you can't buy all those parts separately for that price! An XJ would be a good donor too as they are mechanically the same and they are cheap and plentiful.
That may be be a good idea if I could find a 4 cylinder xj cheap that wasn't also completely ragged out. I would need all the wiring and stuff, and an HP 30 front would be a swap candidate also.
wvjeepguy81 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-24-2014, 10:45 PM   #9 (permalink)
Intern for a day...
 
Beat95YJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Member # 22176
Location: Redondo Beach
Posts: 39,405
The 2.4 engine is much better than the 2.5 fwiw.
__________________
I can break a steel ball in a rubber room!

I wheel more in a day, than you did last year.

:tank:
Beat95YJ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-25-2014, 02:49 AM   #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Member # 343466
Location: WV
Posts: 707
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beat95YJ View Post
The 2.4 engine is much better than the 2.5 fwiw.
Yeah it is, but I'm assuming it's harder to find by quite a bit, and the price would reflect that.

Any opinion on the manual transmission options? The six speed offered with the 2.4 has a lower first gear than the 5 speed that came with the 2.5. I'm assuming both auto transmissions may be a little too long for the build, although I would likely stretch the wheelbase back and run a fuel cell.
wvjeepguy81 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-25-2014, 09:43 AM   #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Member # 9222
Location: uber alles,ca
Posts: 8,326
Speaking of transmissions, I remember a magazine article about 20 years ago that showed the SM420 being almost a direct bolt up to a 2.5 bell housing and that is perfect for a drivers side diff since the huge SM420 hump is on the passenger side.
larryboy is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-25-2014, 10:26 AM   #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Member # 5326
Location: Southwest Colorado
Posts: 10,781
Quote:
Originally Posted by larryboy View Post
Speaking of transmissions, I remember a magazine article about 20 years ago that showed the SM420 being almost a direct bolt up to a 2.5 bell housing and that is perfect for a drivers side diff since the huge SM420 hump is on the passenger side.
I think you need an S10 bellhousing to make that work.

The really early 'iron duke' 2.5s in the CJs with the GM bellhousing pattern can just use a GM bellhousing.

Tri-county Gear still makes an inertia ring for the flywheel that is suppose to help with low end performance a LOT.
__________________
42 MB, 225, T18, big kid go cart with clown tires
92 Dodge W250 daily driver on 39s
Mieser is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-25-2014, 10:33 AM   #13 (permalink)
Intern for a day...
 
Beat95YJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Member # 22176
Location: Redondo Beach
Posts: 39,405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mieser View Post
I think you need an S10 bellhousing to make that work.

The really early 'iron duke' 2.5s in the CJs with the GM bellhousing pattern can just use a GM bellhousing.

Tri-county Gear still makes an inertia ring for the flywheel that is suppose to help with low end performance a LOT.
Dakota or xj. Somewhere I have one. You have to cut it for the CPS.
__________________
I can break a steel ball in a rubber room!

I wheel more in a day, than you did last year.

:tank:
Beat95YJ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-25-2014, 10:51 AM   #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Member # 5326
Location: Southwest Colorado
Posts: 10,781
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beat95YJ View Post
Dakota or xj. Somewhere I have one. You have to cut it for the CPS.
Do those have the right transmission pattern? Or would those be the ax-5 type stuff?
__________________
42 MB, 225, T18, big kid go cart with clown tires
92 Dodge W250 daily driver on 39s
Mieser is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-25-2014, 10:51 AM   #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Member # 9222
Location: uber alles,ca
Posts: 8,326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mieser View Post
I think you need an S10 bellhousing to make that work.

The really early 'iron duke' 2.5s in the CJs with the GM bellhousing pattern can just use a GM bellhousing.

Tri-county Gear still makes an inertia ring for the flywheel that is suppose to help with low end performance a LOT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beat95YJ View Post
Dakota or xj. Somewhere I have one. You have to cut it for the CPS.

Yeah, it was a YJ 2.5 in the article...I knew you guys would know the details.

larryboy is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-25-2014, 11:09 AM   #16 (permalink)
Intern for a day...
 
Beat95YJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Member # 22176
Location: Redondo Beach
Posts: 39,405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mieser View Post
Do those have the right transmission pattern? Or would those be the ax-5 type stuff?
I don't recall. Been too many years. Widej was the one that told me about it.
__________________
I can break a steel ball in a rubber room!

I wheel more in a day, than you did last year.

:tank:
Beat95YJ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-25-2014, 11:12 AM   #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Member # 5326
Location: Southwest Colorado
Posts: 10,781
Found more info...

Adapting the 2.5L Jeep Engine to SM420 & SM465 Transmissions
__________________
42 MB, 225, T18, big kid go cart with clown tires
92 Dodge W250 daily driver on 39s
Mieser is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-25-2014, 03:46 PM   #18 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Member # 232466
Location: Ogden, Ut
Posts: 184
I got all excited about the sm420 swap thinking that it would be a great plan B if my rear drive shaft ends up too short with the AX-5 trans i am using right up until i found this: "The overall length of the trans is shorter than the stock combo, the rear driveline can be lengthened about 3/4" "
Swapping a SM420 into a Wrangler

Can that be true? I thought the AX-5 looked rather long, but maybe its not as bad as I thought...........
__________________
Lead me to the crossroads, I can find my way home
Wjeeper is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-25-2014, 03:54 PM   #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Member # 5326
Location: Southwest Colorado
Posts: 10,781
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wjeeper View Post
I got all excited about the sm420 swap thinking that it would be a great plan B if my rear drive shaft ends up too short with the AX-5 trans i am using right up until i found this: "The overall length of the trans is shorter than the stock combo, the rear driveline can be lengthened about 3/4" "
Swapping a SM420 into a Wrangler

Can that be true? I thought the AX-5 looked rather long, but maybe its not as bad as I thought...........
SM420 should be 13.9" adapted plus 6.5" for the bellhousing for a total length of about 20.4"

The AX-5 is 15.63" plus 6.5-7.5 for the bellhousing for a total length of 22.13-23.13" long.

So it looks like it should be over 2" shorter.
__________________
42 MB, 225, T18, big kid go cart with clown tires
92 Dodge W250 daily driver on 39s
Mieser is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-31-2014, 11:36 PM   #20 (permalink)
Rock God
 
EricsGreen98Tj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Member # 187456
Location: Elkins WV
Posts: 1,272
If you can find a Dakota 2.5L 4cyl bell housing it allows you to run an AX15. Which is a WAY stronger trans. Then it's simple to swap a Dana 300 to the AX15.

I have an inertia ring downstairs for my 2.5, I just haven't installed it yet.

Also AA makes a kit to bolt a Np435 to the AX5 bell housing. But you gotta swap input shafts. And you'd have to buy an adapter to run a decent case...but it would be nice to have the lower 1st gear option..
__________________
Quote:
Man, the expedition forum is
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
'r than gcc
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


If you fuckers actually took a second to read the words rather than knee jerk reacting to the pics, you might have a clue what his plan is.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
EricsGreen98Tj is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-01-2014, 09:09 PM   #21 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Member # 343466
Location: WV
Posts: 707
After some research,it looks like the 30rh auto that came with most 4 cylinder TJ's is actually slightly shorter than the manual. I think that is the direction I would be more likely to go.
wvjeepguy81 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-02-2017, 01:36 PM   #22 (permalink)
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2017
Member # 759937
Posts: 5
Im working on collecting all the parts for this swap, having the frame boxed and new motor mounts made for the 4banger, my 47 willys build will be 2.5amc obd1, sm420, dana 300, narrow track 44/30 3.73 ratio 31s for now.

rickmilam is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-07-2017, 04:54 PM   #23 (permalink)
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2017
Member # 759937
Posts: 5
Bought a yj engine 2.5 95 model, sm420 came in, novak stuff just arrived. Im shipping the frame and body off for fab work in a few weeks for engine mounts and cross member install (I suck at welding) slowly coming together. Diffs are in and will be rebuilt later. 44/30 tcase is a dana 300. using stock engine harness and computer from the donor yj. body harness is a painless 21 circut hotrod kit. Ill be running a tj pump in a 2161 rci tank.












Last edited by rickmilam; 07-07-2017 at 04:56 PM.
rickmilam is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-07-2017, 09:22 PM   #24 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Member # 5326
Location: Southwest Colorado
Posts: 10,781
Cool project!

I saw someone convert a 4.0 MPFI intake to be side draft to fix a hood clearance issue. They basically bolted a plate over the stock hole and TIG welded on a new flange after drilling a big hole in the side of the intake.

Could be a neat trick depending where things end up....
__________________
42 MB, 225, T18, big kid go cart with clown tires
92 Dodge W250 daily driver on 39s
Mieser is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-07-2017, 10:20 PM   #25 (permalink)
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2017
Member # 759937
Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mieser View Post
Cool project!

I saw someone convert a 4.0 MPFI intake to be side draft to fix a hood clearance issue. They basically bolted a plate over the stock hole and TIG welded on a new flange after drilling a big hole in the side of the intake.

Could be a neat trick depending where things end up....
thanks for the kind words.... its a lot of research.
rickmilam is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Pirate-4x4.Ru : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

** A VERIFICATION EMAIL IS SENT TO THIS ADDRESS TO COMPLETE REGISTRATION!! **

Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.